FG: So saying collaborative writing can be redemptive, that’s already an act. That makes something happen.

AF: I appreciate the premise that ecopoetics emerges from a critique, rather than a reaffirmation, of Western subjectivity. I like John’s implication that Redstart’s dialogic structure prevents present global trajectories from seeming irreversible, since potential always remains for a shift in momentum. But before we get too far, can you give a brief sense of what you mean when referring to the big glossed lie of “‘experiencing nature.’” What makes this phrase a lie? Why does that equal the death of nature?

FG: That’s John’s phrase, and John also says in the preface that we have no landscape to speak of. He insists that as soon as we’ve identified a landscape, we have separated ourselves from it. Historically this leads to tragic consequences.